Theocacao: Kodak Zi6 Review

Farhan — Aug 20, 08 6267

Thanks Scott. I was hoping for decent review of Zi6 and you delivered. I will be picking one up for my Soaring trip. It will be awesome (both the Zi6 and my trip).

Best,
Farhan

Bronson — Aug 20, 08 6268

I ordered my Zi6 today. According to the website, the Black model is shipping and in stock (as of the time I ordered that is). I'm going on a trip next Friday so I hope it arrives before then.

Ted — Aug 20, 08 6269

Bronson - where did you order it that said they were in stock? Amazon still lists Oct. 1 as the due date.

Scott Stevenson — Aug 20, 08 6270

@Ted: where did you order it that said they were in stock?

The Kodak site itself, on the product page.

Alan — Aug 20, 08 6271

Yes, but can it play mp3s?

Jessie — Aug 20, 08 6272

The "add to cart" feature on Kodak's site hasn't work for me for a week, and sadly it doesn't seem available elsewhere until October 1. How'd you get this sucker?

Dmitry — Aug 21, 08 6273

Jeez, if that's "great looking video" then I'm a ballerina. The stabilization (if any) is so bad, just looking at the video can give one an epileptic seizure. Highlights are blown, there's pretty horrible frame judder as well.

If you want great video get a Canon HF-100. $650, 1080p at 30FPS (or 1080i at 60), writes to a SDHC card. One 16GB card ($50) stores a bit over 2 hours of full HD video. There's image stabilization, and the output is just stunning.

Aaron — Aug 21, 08 6274

The quality if this thing is pretty stunning, however I am concerned primarily about the two critiques you mentioned:

- I noticed that this video, as well as the video Andy Ihnatko posted, were very jittery. I have not noticed this in the Flip videos I've seen so much. Perhaps the higher resolution makes it more noticeable?

- I would like to see some indoor videos to get an idea of the low-light performance. Colorful, sunshiney outdoor scenes can make any camera look good.

Torsten — Aug 21, 08 6275

The video of this tiny little camera looks really great! I wonder how it would look if one is filming at a sports event, where you follow a fast moving runner or so. Are there more pixel blocks than in the upper scene? But that's just the only major concern...

Sunnan — Aug 21, 08 6276

Whoah, that's jittery! And the macro stuff what kind of unfocused. How about indoors?

Scott Stevenson — Aug 21, 08 6277

@Dmitry: Jeez, if that's "great looking video" then I'm a ballerina

I might have not made this clear enough, but I meant "great looking for this price and form factor". I'm sure the Canon is great, but it's more than three times the price and a far more complex device. There's no way it will fit in my pocket, either. The value of the Zi6 is in the price and simplicity.

The stabilization (if any) is so bad, just looking at the video can give one an epileptic seizure. Highlights are blown, there's pretty horrible frame judder as well.

Some of the artifacts you're seeing are absolutely due to compression because I don't see them in the original. In any case, I have no doubt a trained eye can find faults in the source video, and I'm sure a higher-end device would do a better job. The Flip might be better in some respects, but I don't think I'd be willing to give up the 720p.

It's worth noting that the stabilization in some of the cases (particularly the third clip) was heavily affected by the high winds. If you look closely, you can see that the plants themselves are rattling about. Not saying that it's the only cause, just a contributing factor.

But my overall feeling is this: here's this low-cost device that exceeded my expectations in most areas and is fun and ease to use. If you want something higher end in a larger form factor, more features, and a higher price tag, then you have a lot of options.

Some may be happier with the Flip, but personally, I will happily trade stablization for resolution since there's at least an option to use a tripod.

@Torsten: The video of this tiny little camera looks really great! I wonder how it would look if one is filming at a sports event

Not sure, though there is a 60fps recording mode. Haven't tried it yet.

Are there more pixel blocks than in the upper scene?

Not sure what you mean by that.

fuzzymath — Aug 21, 08 6278

I'm looking for something to record iPhone demos. How well would it record an iPhone in the dark?

Jemaleddin — Aug 21, 08 6279

Saying that the Kodak costs the same amount as the Mino is a little disingenuous when you admit that you HAVE to buy an SD card to use it. The Mino has a built-in (I know, I know) 2GB flash chip, so it's at least, what, $8 cheaper? :-)

Ted — Aug 21, 08 6280

For those having issues with Kodak's site and the "add to cart" function... Try IE/Win. It kept bombing for me in Safari and IE, and on a whim I tried it in IE6/Win and it worked as expected. Someone needs to notify the Kodak webmaster that their cart software is broken for Ff and Safari users.

Al Degutis — Aug 21, 08 6281

It seems to do well in various lighting conditions. I wonder how it does with a strong backlight. The Flip Ultra (original, not the Mino) did exceptionally well as seen in the video here:
http://www.degutis.com/blog/flip-vs-panasonic-sdr-s10/.

The Zi6 is on my list and if I get it, it would be the third pocket sized video camera I bought this year.

Adam — Aug 21, 08 6282

I got mine two nights ago and have had only a bit of a chance to play with it. My first impressions:

Feels very cheap. My fujifilm consumer still camera has a nice metal body, feels solid. This feels like it could come apart.

The joystick adds to that feeling. It looks like I should be able to click to either side of it, but instead you tilt the joystick.

BUT! Taking video is way easy. I like that it saves as .mov (I haven't tried editing it in iMovie or Final Cut, but here's hoping it opens the files natively) A small nice thing is there is no 'red light' when it's recording, so besides the loud sound, people are unaware you're recording, which, perverted things aside, has it's advantages.

The quality seems okay, but you need ALOT of light. Like Noonish daylight lots of light. I feel like having this in a bar I'd need to carry a flashlight with me.

I'm curious to see how good of video it can get with proper lighting.

o - one other thing, no mic in, which is to be expected, but it seems to pick up sound okay if you speak at it.

Nathan — Aug 21, 08 6283

For what it's worth, you can find the aforementioned Canon HF100 here for $289:

http://shopdigitaldirect.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=7699

I realize that doesn't address the main concern about pocket portability, but it's only $100 extra.

Rich — Aug 21, 08 6285

Hello,

Kodak site QA guy here... I noticed the comments with regards to the site not working for www.kodak.com on particular browsers...

I tested it before and tested it again.. No problems on my end with IE6/IE6 & IE7, FF3 and Mac with Safari. Configurations are all standard clean installations with default settings. If you can provide further information please do so.

Buck — Aug 21, 08 6286

I thought that HF100 price was about $300 too low -- and guess what:

http://www.resellerratings.com/forum/merchant-discussion-shopping-advice/134824-can-i-trust-shopdigitaldirect-com.html

Shopdigitaldirect is a scam.

Roger — Aug 21, 08 6287

I would very much like to know if the movies can be edited in iMovie 08 out of the box.

I tried AVCHD based video cam from Canon and I had to buy 3rd party software to convert the AVCHD into Apple Intermediate format.
It takes a looong time to do the conversion -- totally kills the spontaneity of this kind of small flash based video cams.

Tonio Loewald — Aug 21, 08 6288

Looks like a nice camera but with some obvious flaws (as you mention)

Why not consider something like the Panasonic TZ-5, which is iPod-sized, takes very good still pictures, shoots HD video, and has optical image stabilization (sorely lacking from your sample videos)? It's only about $100 more.

Scott Stevenson — Aug 21, 08 6290

@Sunnan: And the macro stuff what kind of unfocused. How about indoors?

The macro is at a fixed disance. It's certainly not as helpful as variable distance but the Flip has no macro at all. I have some indoor stuff to post.

@fuzzymath: I'm looking for something to record iPhone demos. How well would it record an iPhone in the dark?

Just tried it. Far too blurry to be useful, at least in a dark room. As a side note, I think a lot of people are running their iPhones apps in the simulator then using ScreenFlow to record that.

@Al Degutis: I wonder how it does with a strong backlight

Based purely on the video you linked to and a quick test here, I'd guess the Flip does a better job with strong backlighting, but I have no way to verify that.

@Adam: Feels very cheap. My fujifilm consumer still camera has a nice metal body, feels solid. This feels like it could come apart.

For what it's worth, I don't get that impression at all. It is lightweight, though. Maybe that contributes.

@Roger: I would very much like to know if the movies can be edited in iMovie 08 out of the box.

The files are H.264 .mov format, so yes works natively in iMovie.

@Tonio Loewald: Why not consider something like the Panasonic TZ-5

I hadn't heard of it until you mentioned it. It's an interesting device, but far more complex as it's a full-featured digital camera. Of course, you get a lot of features with that complexity. I assume it would have better picture quality (maybe much better), but it appears to use QuickTime motion JPEG for capture? I assume these files would be substantially larger than the H.264 files that the Zi6 generates.

The Panasonic also only records up to 30fps and is not as easy to fit in a pocket because of the lens. But I'm sure some people would prefer it.

Scott Stevenson — Aug 21, 08 6291

I posted a 60fps sample video for anyone who's interested. Again, make sure you click "large" if you want to see the bigger size.

Torsten — Aug 22, 08 6298

Thanks for the answers and the 60fps sample video, which looks pretty awesome, too. I meant artefacts when i said "pixel blocks". But you said that is because of the compression of the movie. Hopefully, Kodak will release this camera here in Europe soon. Must have it.

Scott Stevenson — Aug 22, 08 6299

@ Torsten: But you said that is because of the compression of the movie

Just to be clear, I said some of the artifacts are due to compressing the file for upload, but not all of them.

Jared Earle — Aug 22, 08 6302

"Yes, but can it play mp3s?"

That's not the right question.

The right question is "Yes, but will it blend?"

Great review, Scott. You've certainly whipped up some desire with this one.

Willie Abrams — Aug 22, 08 6303

Can you post a short movie right out of the camera without any processing? I want to see if files will play on the PS3 (and other HD capable playback devices) directly.

Matt — Aug 22, 08 6304

The first decent "real user" review I've been able to read with source pics and video.

Great job! Keep up the cool reviews!

Cheers,
Doc R

Zach — Aug 23, 08 6306

Any comments on battery life?

Scott Stevenson — Aug 24, 08 6307

@Zach: Any comments on battery life?

Haven't used it quite enough yet to run out of batteries.

Davyo — Aug 25, 08 6310

Ok, I got the Zi6 from Kodak and after one day and night with it I put it back in the box and sent it back to Kodak for a refund, The lack of ANY image stabilization at all and the very very poor low light performance was beyond bad and I found the day light performance not that much better than my Flip Mino, Ultra or my Aiptek A-HD.
I posted 2 video reviews of the Zi6 on Youtube and also on Vimeo.
In one of my reviews I shot and posted the exact same comaparison footage from the Zi6, the Flip Mino and the Flip Ultra and the differenc in image quality is night and day, and not in favor of the Zi6.
When watching ALL the other post of test footage from the Zi6 you might notice that its all footage shot outside in perfect lighting with the Zi6 not being moved hardly at all,,,, there is a reason for this,, its called really really bad motion blur.
To find my reviews and see the comparison footage I shot just do a search for "Davyo" on Youtube or Vimeo and see for yourself.
Cheers
Davyo

Scott Stevenson — Aug 25, 08 6314

@Davyo: When watching ALL the other post of test footage from the Zi6 you might notice that its all footage shot outside in perfect lighting

Absolutely. The camera is clearly designed for sunlight or strong indoor light. Based on a few samples I've seen, the Flip seems to do better in low light. If that's your most important consideration, then my guess is you want the Flip. I'm not as sure about image stabilization because I can't find any claims that the Flip actually has that as a feature.

Even the HD issue aside, the Flip can't expand beyond the built-in 2GB of storage or 60 minutes of recording. The Zi6 can expand up to 32GB of storage. If you're more likely to record lengthy presentations in a conference room, the format and storage space could be a lot more valuable than support for dim lighting.

I also think the Zi6 does a substantially better job with white balance and color saturation in daylight. Compare the same video in Zi6 to the Flip Ultra (posted by John Gruber). To my eye, the Zi6 is noticeably better. Again, this is in daylight but I'd rather optimize for the most likely cases.

In general, neither device is meant to be a complete replacement for a higher-end HD camcorder, which will almost universally provide better picture, features, and so on.

Bronson — Aug 26, 08 6315

I received my Kodak Zi6 yesterday and I love it!! I'm not in the market for a $300 camcorder or one with all of the bells & whistles. I just want something (like the Flip) that will shoot video. My problem with the Flip is the lack of expansion. I don't want to be limited to 1 hour. The Zi6 solves this.

I will be keeping my Zi6 as it meets my needs for now. If I ever want/need to shoot higher quality video, I know where to look and I won't be looking for a sub-$200 camera to do it.

Bronson — Aug 26, 08 6316

Since everyone is interested in the quality of the Zi6 in low light situations, I recording some video in what I would classify as VERY low light. It's shot in the HD60 mode. Take a look.

http://www.vimeo.com/1603829

bobxxx — Sep 03, 08 6325

Hmmm again a another cool device that sounds like it really only geared to the small fringe of apple fans which is really a bummer. Because h264 usually runs, downloads and looks like crap on pcs. One reason I like the flip it is in AVI and I dont have to use the god awful crapple oops apple quick slime opps time to view the excessive compress h264 video. Why kodak did choose h264 when 95% of the world uses the pc? Weird bummer of a choice. And the flip ultra ( video looks better to me and the buttons are easier to use) takes awsome night time video yet still produces excellent video in bright sunlight or dim light indoor video. Yes the resolution is lower but the over all image quality is better and the fact it can handle all kinds different of light enivorments well seems to still put the flips in the lead? I dont know the cheaper flip ultra still seems the better deal unless I seem more video that shows ZI 6 is as flexable as the flip.

James — Sep 04, 08 6326

I noticed that the low light problem with Zi6 too. However, when I changed it to SD 30 fps mode, the low light result is much better. In fact, it is better than flip, which is also SD 30 fps, under the same low light condition.

I guess you can capture video with HD 60fps outdoor and use SD 30fps in low light.

Scott Stevenson — Sep 04, 08 6328

@James: when I changed it to SD 30 fps mode, the low light result is much better. In fact, it is better than flip

I wasn't able to see this in a quick test. Do you happen to have some sample video up somewhere?

johnny — Sep 05, 08 6339

The battery indicator takes a hit when you record in HD or play back on an HDTV (freakin' gorgeous picture btw...) but it jumps back when you're done.

I'd really like an external AC adapter for HD playback but there's no port.

Is there such a thing as an AC adapter that comes in the form factor of two AA batteries? (Think of those sealed battery packs you see for wireless phones, but the pigtail would go to an external AC adapter...) You'd slip in the pack, plug it into the AC adapter, but the camera would think it's on battery power when in fact it's getting 2 x 1.4 volts via the adapter.

What's the white square at the bottom for? (Near the tripod mount.)

valeri — Sep 26, 08 6397

Just got mine from QVC and they may be getting it back . The Users Guide is lousy , the volume is not controlable and very low on playback and the 3X zoom does not work , everything is blurry . I tried calling Kodak , this is , of course , outsourced and got nowwhere because it is so new , they have very little instruction on it .

Warren — Oct 02, 08 6420

Wow, I am glad I found this review. so many 'pro' people complaining about low-lighting. This is a nice DIGITAL video cam! I love what I saw on this video - the bubbles in the water!!! And RIPPLES!

I AM buying this from RadioShack today, it will be my stand in for my Sony TRV525 Digital Video8 Hi8 (tape) handycam.

My ONLY quim with the Zi6 is "Can it have video deviced input to it and record that videos." Example: Can I connect my Xbox360 to it to record my video game footage directly to the unit?"

For a camera like this under $300, it is a true value for the money, storage, any AAA Battery technology, ease of use portability.

Good job Kodak, you're back on MY map!

Scott Stevenson — Oct 02, 08 6423

@Warren: Can it have video deviced input to it and record that videos

There's no video input. I think your best best is probably one of the conversion boxes that specialize in capturing video directly to the computer.

Ruth — Oct 09, 08 6479

It seems that when zooming in/out, clicking noise is heard from pushing the buttons and is"part" of the video. Do you find this to be true all the time?

Andrew — Oct 14, 08 6489

Cannot get it to work on PC !!! - videos are very jittery/jerky especially HD and HD60. I have tried the bundled software but the videos look rubbish. Sound is fine but video keeps stopping. What am i doing wrong ??. I have also tried Windows Media, Windows Media Classic, VLC Media Player, Quicktime etc but all videos (HD and HD60) look too jerky. Yet on the TV they look fine !!

Help !

Best Regards,
Andy

Andy — Oct 15, 08 6491

Hi all. Well apparently the problem i'm having with jerky video is to do with the H.264 codec ????. I cannot get any of the videos to play smoothly on the PC (WinXP), and i have tried VLC, Win Media Classic, Win Media 11, Cyberlink Power DVD, Divx Player etc etc. The ONLY player it seems to work good on is Nero Show, but my version is only a 30 day trial !!!!. This MUST be to do with the codec the zi6 uses, that codec must be used in Nero Show, but not in the other softwares i have tried.

Do i need to try and find the H.264 codec for my PC ?, where would i get that from ?. Hope it's free, after paying �130 for this camcorder i definitely don't want to have to pay anything more !!

Regards,
Andy

Scott Stevenson — Oct 15, 08 6492

@Andy: Do i need to try and find the H.264 codec for my PC ?, where would i get that from?

I haven't tried any of this on Windows. I've only grabbed files from the camera, played them back in QuickTime on Mac OS X, and put them into iMovie.

As far as I know, H.264 is the "native" compression format for QuickTime on both Mac and Windows, and is used for all iTunes Store video content. Assuming iTunes videos look good on your machine, these files should work, but I honestly don't know much about video on Windows.

Andrew — Oct 16, 08 6493

Many thanks Scott. I've tried everything!, i wonder if it might be worthwhile downloading an updated version of itunes ?. I have itunes on my PC and when i opened it the other night it said "There is a newer version, do you want to upgrade?", to which i clicked "No". i think i might try and get the newer version later and see if that works.

As i say, Nero is the only software which will play it flawlessly (although Media Player 11 does a fair job), although even that (Nero) didn't work smoothly earlier this morning, so i'm not sure what's going on. It's such a shame as the video quality is SUPERB if only i could archive the movies (and play them) on my PC in full bloom !

My PC is a Dual Core Intel Pentium, 1GB RAM, Win XP. So it should play these videos fine !

Andrew — Oct 16, 08 6495

Well folks you'll be pleased to know i got the HD videos working on XP, but only in Nero (they don't look good in Media Player 11). I got the H.264 codec from the Microsoft Website (free).

just one quite obvious question, i cannot seem to find where the "time remaining" is on the Zi6, to tell me how much recording time i have left on my SD card !!! - surely there must be a "time remaining" feature, every camcorder (whether SD, DV or Hi8 has a timer!) ????

Regards,
Andrew

David Russell — Oct 17, 08 6500

Kodak's online store suggests an SDHC card as an accessory for it. That suggests to me that it has an SDHC slot - especially since the page also says that the Zi6 has 'up to 32Gb of storage'. Of course 32Gb SDHC cards are ludicrously expensive, but there's no reason why you couldn't buy 4Gb ones. The card slot means that, unlike the Creative and Flip Video, the Zi6's storage has no maximum limit. The ability to swap out memory cards would be great for longer/more frequent filming away from a computer.

Scott Stevenson — Oct 18, 08 6501

@David Russell: Kodak's online store suggests an SDHC card as an accessory for it. That suggests to me that it has an SDHC slot

It does, yes. I believe I got a 16GB card for about $50.

Paul — Oct 19, 08 6504

I just bought the Zi6 and shot some video. I plugged the USB into my MacBook and it downloaded the files into iPhoto as .wav files. I can't find any way to move these into iMovie. (I deleted the files from the Zi6 - a mistake?) The thread above says that the files go into iMovie natively - so what's up? I need help with this, please.

p.s. I also have a Flip Ultra, which is a great little camcorder - but I'm going to China for three weeks and don't want to lug the laptop with me, so I figured the SD cards in the Zi6 would be perfect.

Paul — Oct 19, 08 6505

CORRECTION of last post - I meant to say that the files in iPhoto are .mov files (must have wav on the brain, or something). Sorry for the confusion.

Donna — Oct 23, 08 6510

Hi there,

I have recently purchased the Zi6 and 32GB SDHC card. The card icon appears on the screen with a red exclamation mark through it and record mode is disabled.
When reading a Kodak article more clearly it states that the camcorder is untested with cards over 8GB so beware!!

Scott Stevenson — Oct 23, 08 6511

@Donna: When reading a Kodak article more clearly it states that the camcorder is untested with cards over 8GB so beware!!

That doesn't sound right to me. In any case, I'm using a 16GB card. Is it possible the card you have is just defective and needs to be replaced?

Paul — Oct 26, 08 6513

Follow-up on the previous post re: .mov files. The day after I sent the post, with a clearer brain, I tried again. What I discovered: 1) for some reason, the MAcBook opens iPhoto when the Zi6 is plugged into it; 2) I mistook this for iMovie, and told it to download the files; 3) I finally got the .mov files to import into iMovie by changing a setting from "current" to "original" (file type, I think). And it works great! I've since downloaded directly from the Zi6 ti iMovie by closing iPhoto when it pops open, and using "import" from within iMovie.

So far, I'm very pleased with the Zi6 compared to the FlipUltra I have (I might keep the Flip if they ever ship the back ordered underwater case I also ordered). Zi6 quality is excellent, the SD card slot makes it a better camera for traveling without a laptop, the screen is larger, the still photo feature is good, and it has a macro setting (a wow feature for me - I like to photo bugs, flowers, etc.). The big drawback so far - the included software is PC only. Maybe not a problem due to having iMovie, but the Flip software (built in to the camera) has some nice easy features.

Dan — Nov 10, 08 6529

Great discussion. And I agree this is camera is a great low-budg solution esp if you're a mac person. However, and this is a slight tangent, I've noticed that when I export my 720p/60 clips into imovie, it has to downgrade the footage to edit it. Kind of defeats the purpose of the 720p/60 footage. Quicktime pro is a decent alternative and enables me to edit without any loss. Plus you can drop multiple clips into a single quicktime project. Still, it's not quite as flexible an interface as imovie. However, unless an imovie genius out there has some insight I'm missing, I'd reccomend QTP for editing.

Scott Stevenson — Nov 11, 08 6533

@Dan: I've noticed that when I export my 720p/60 clips into imovie, it has to downgrade the footage to edit it

Could you elaborate a bit? I'm not sure what you mean by downgrade.

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Kodak Zi6 Review